Comments on: Elgg http://openedweb.com/blog/2008/12/10/elgg/ Education and Technology Fri, 11 May 2012 08:29:04 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Tradenet http://openedweb.com/blog/2008/12/10/elgg/comment-page-1/#comment-2652 Tradenet Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:30:37 +0000 http://openedweb.com/blog/?p=798#comment-2652 Michael, I have setup several Drupal sites. It's solid. Has a strong community and an excellent organization. Elgg looks promising to say the least if it can get through the growing pains and the developers remain focused. It lacks polish especially in the user management and permissions area. However, I do agree with Steve's statement that WMu is somewhat "convoluted". So, in looking at the three: 1.) Drupal is more CMS than community 2.) WMu is more "Blogger" than community 3.) Elgg is about community at the user base. Michael,

I have setup several Drupal sites. It’s solid. Has a strong community and an excellent organization. Elgg looks promising to say the least if it can get through the growing pains and the developers remain focused. It lacks polish especially in the user management and permissions area. However, I do agree with Steve’s statement that WMu is somewhat “convoluted”.
So, in looking at the three:
1.) Drupal is more CMS than community
2.) WMu is more “Blogger” than community
3.) Elgg is about community at the user base.

]]> By: Tradenet http://openedweb.com/blog/2008/12/10/elgg/comment-page-1/#comment-2621 Tradenet Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:59:31 +0000 http://openedweb.com/blog/?p=798#comment-2621 Indeed. All I can say is it's growing pains. Indeed. All I can say is it’s growing pains.

]]> By: John Bowne http://openedweb.com/blog/2008/12/10/elgg/comment-page-1/#comment-2566 John Bowne Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:00:50 +0000 http://openedweb.com/blog/?p=798#comment-2566 And groups are back on community.elgg.org. And groups are back on community.elgg.org.

]]> By: Phil http://openedweb.com/blog/2008/12/10/elgg/comment-page-1/#comment-2555 Phil Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:04:05 +0000 http://openedweb.com/blog/?p=798#comment-2555 You've got a very good point there David. You’ve got a very good point there David.

]]> By: David Moon http://openedweb.com/blog/2008/12/10/elgg/comment-page-1/#comment-2549 David Moon Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:43:35 +0000 http://openedweb.com/blog/?p=798#comment-2549 Agreed - disorganization can be expected from time to time. It’s the lack of engagement from elgg that puzzles me. A positive, unemotional and coherent statement or blog post would help ease the uneasiness for those on the fence like myself. Agreed – disorganization can be expected from time to time. It’s the lack of engagement from elgg that puzzles me. A positive, unemotional and coherent statement or blog post would help ease the uneasiness for those on the fence like myself.

]]> By: David Moon http://openedweb.com/blog/2008/12/10/elgg/comment-page-1/#comment-2548 David Moon Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:35:44 +0000 http://openedweb.com/blog/?p=798#comment-2548 It’s not a failure, so much as a weakness. Elgg lacks the core pruning tools for moderators to keep a community well-groomed, civil and organized. The removal of content was more an emotional response from the elgg team than a bunch of newbies asking elementary questions for everyone to see. It’s not a failure, so much as a weakness. Elgg lacks the core pruning tools for moderators to keep a community well-groomed, civil and organized. The removal of content was more an emotional response from the elgg team than a bunch of newbies asking elementary questions for everyone to see.

]]> By: Cash http://openedweb.com/blog/2008/12/10/elgg/comment-page-1/#comment-2543 Cash Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:45:37 +0000 http://openedweb.com/blog/?p=798#comment-2543 I'll don't think the failure of the community site says much about the technology. The community failure had more to do with the way it was setup and managed (or not managed). Any one could create a group so there were groups called things like "please, please help me fix my install". Because the wire and new pages appeared on the front page (dashboard), it encouraged any one who was having trouble to broadcast out their problems. These type of requests drowned everything else out. The groups had a lot of overlap. Documentation ended up spread out with no way to find it. It was chaos more than any kind of organized community. There were technical issues, too - core elgg search is only over tags, group forums were very limited, pages require a little more work than wikis. I believe all of those could be fixed through plugins. But I think the main problems were more related to the setup of the site and the lack of management. I’ll don’t think the failure of the community site says much about the technology. The community failure had more to do with the way it was setup and managed (or not managed). Any one could create a group so there were groups called things like “please, please help me fix my install”. Because the wire and new pages appeared on the front page (dashboard), it encouraged any one who was having trouble to broadcast out their problems. These type of requests drowned everything else out. The groups had a lot of overlap. Documentation ended up spread out with no way to find it. It was chaos more than any kind of organized community.

There were technical issues, too – core elgg search is only over tags, group forums were very limited, pages require a little more work than wikis. I believe all of those could be fixed through plugins. But I think the main problems were more related to the setup of the site and the lack of management.

]]> By: Mark Pearson http://openedweb.com/blog/2008/12/10/elgg/comment-page-1/#comment-2532 Mark Pearson Wed, 17 Dec 2008 03:32:39 +0000 http://openedweb.com/blog/?p=798#comment-2532 Chaps, I want to make it clear that I want Elgg to succeed. I delivered three presentations this summer to various audiences in US Higher Education singing the praises of Elgg and it's pedagogical benefits. I've been following the software since version 0.1, messing with installs since 0.6 and in production with 0.8 and then 0.9. But when it was announced at ElggJam 07 in Brighton that Curverider was planning to start again from scratch with a new architecture for version 1 I was dismayed. I did feel that it was a hasty decision made with little or no consultation. But here we are and we need to make the best of it. Henri Nouwen once said in my hearing that community was "living with the person you least liked" or words to that effect. I'm sure that Nathan's had unfair flak and unreasonable demands over his Folio plugin and has felt like chucking it in at times. But without a workable community structure there's no means by which amateurs like myself can contribute. For the Elgg classic I think that I was able to provide assistance to some folks with installation problems and I did contribute to the Wiki. I was looking forward to working with the new Elgg version in the New Year and preparing to transition my site from 0.9 to 1.x if that ever became possible. While I do this I'd like to be able to contribute to the community in a meaningful. way. I was excited by the prospect of generating some discussion and interest about integrating Elgg with Moodle and so I formed a Group around this topic. Now I find that it has disappeared together with every other community group and that it's my fault for complaining. I'm afraid that Google Groups and a developer's mailing list doesn't really constitute community. I concur with Nathan that if Curverider cannot manage the Elgg community with their own system it does not bode well for the future. Chaps,
I want to make it clear that I want Elgg to succeed. I delivered three presentations this summer to various audiences in US Higher Education singing the praises of Elgg and it’s pedagogical benefits. I’ve been following the software since version 0.1, messing with installs since 0.6 and in production with 0.8 and then 0.9. But when it was announced at ElggJam 07 in Brighton that Curverider was planning to start again from scratch with a new architecture for version 1 I was dismayed. I did feel that it was a hasty decision made with little or no consultation. But here we are and we need to make the best of it.

Henri Nouwen once said in my hearing that community was “living with the person you least liked” or words to that effect. I’m sure that Nathan’s had unfair flak and unreasonable demands over his Folio plugin and has felt like chucking it in at times. But without a workable community structure there’s no means by which amateurs like myself can contribute. For the Elgg classic I think that I was able to provide assistance to some folks with installation problems and I did contribute to the Wiki. I was looking forward to working with the new Elgg version in the New Year and preparing to transition my site from 0.9 to 1.x if that ever became possible. While I do this I’d like to be able to contribute to the community in a meaningful. way. I was excited by the prospect of generating some discussion and interest about integrating Elgg with Moodle and so I formed a Group around this topic. Now I find that it has disappeared together with every other community group and that it’s my fault for complaining.

I’m afraid that Google Groups and a developer’s mailing list doesn’t really constitute community. I concur with Nathan that if Curverider cannot manage the Elgg community with their own system it does not bode well for the future.

]]> By: Cash http://openedweb.com/blog/2008/12/10/elgg/comment-page-1/#comment-2529 Cash Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:32:55 +0000 http://openedweb.com/blog/?p=798#comment-2529 Elgg 1.* is not a suppose to be a turnkey solution. I see the plugins provided by Curverider as just demonstration plugins. They just serve to show what the framework is capable of. The group forum is a good example of that. It is really barebones. It is not meant to satisfy the needs of a developer/user community. I don't think the failure of the Elgg Community site says much about the core Elgg software. Elgg 1.* is not a suppose to be a turnkey solution. I see the plugins provided by Curverider as just demonstration plugins. They just serve to show what the framework is capable of. The group forum is a good example of that. It is really barebones. It is not meant to satisfy the needs of a developer/user community. I don’t think the failure of the Elgg Community site says much about the core Elgg software.

]]> By: Nathan Garrett http://openedweb.com/blog/2008/12/10/elgg/comment-page-1/#comment-2523 Nathan Garrett Tue, 16 Dec 2008 23:13:05 +0000 http://openedweb.com/blog/?p=798#comment-2523 Kevin; Elgg *was* a ready to go social network before the transition to v1; while not perfect, it allowed people with little programming knowledge to setup a fast social network. Why can't it be that again? As a community, (or as Curverider) why can't we serve people who not are already programmers? v.1 has been out since August - if Elgg can't support its own development community, we should call it a beta and not v1.2. Seriously, isn't anyone rankled at the thought that our software can't even support *our* community? Is that a little embarrassing to anyone but me? We're managing quite fine on Steve's blog - yet we can't do it on a site dedicated to supporting a community???? I'm not trying to say that's anyone's fault, but it should be a wakeup call that leads us to figure out how to improve the software. RE: the Curverider staff being on vacation or busy I know they take a lot of crap from trolls, but that doesn't mean that they can't listen to those of us who have made significant investments in Elgg. Sorry if this is a bit harsh Kevin, I'm not trying to criticize you. I'm just frustrated at Curverider's lack of engagement with people here who are thoughtfully talking thru the issues. Just because we're not happy doesn't mean that we may not have some good suggestions or comments. I know that they give a lot of stuff away, but so have the people here. *Just because we don't work for Curverider doesn't mean that we shouldn't have a say.*They are *not* the only ones who have put a lot of time and effort into Elgg. frustrated; Nathan Kevin;

Elgg *was* a ready to go social network before the transition to v1; while not perfect, it allowed people with little programming knowledge to setup a fast social network. Why can’t it be that again? As a community, (or as Curverider) why can’t we serve people who not are already programmers? v.1 has been out since August – if Elgg can’t support its own development community, we should call it a beta and not v1.2.

Seriously, isn’t anyone rankled at the thought that our software can’t even support *our* community? Is that a little embarrassing to anyone but me? We’re managing quite fine on Steve’s blog – yet we can’t do it on a site dedicated to supporting a community???? I’m not trying to say that’s anyone’s fault, but it should be a wakeup call that leads us to figure out how to improve the software.

RE: the Curverider staff being on vacation or busy

I know they take a lot of crap from trolls, but that doesn’t mean that they can’t listen to those of us who have made significant investments in Elgg.

Sorry if this is a bit harsh Kevin, I’m not trying to criticize you. I’m just frustrated at Curverider’s lack of engagement with people here who are thoughtfully talking thru the issues. Just because we’re not happy doesn’t mean that we may not have some good suggestions or comments.

I know that they give a lot of stuff away, but so have the people here. *Just because we don’t work for Curverider doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t have a say.*They are *not* the only ones who have put a lot of time and effort into Elgg.

frustrated;
Nathan

]]> By: Kevin Jardine http://openedweb.com/blog/2008/12/10/elgg/comment-page-1/#comment-2522 Kevin Jardine Tue, 16 Dec 2008 23:05:38 +0000 http://openedweb.com/blog/?p=798#comment-2522 Hi Mark, So far as I know, Curverider did not "erase" any important content and there have been discussions on this blog about where to move it, in fact. Your tone suggests a reason why Curverider staff might not want to participate in this kind of discussion right now. They've worked flat out for the better part of a year and delivered a fantastic piece of software, only to find that an awful lot of people (and not just the trolls) wanted to whine and complain. To be honest, I agree with the decision that they made. There are only four of them and they have a piece of software to develop. I'd rather that they spent their very limited time focusing on that and not dealing with a "community" that threatened to suck every second and bit of energy they had remaining. Speaking of, I'm running out of energy as well. Good night. Hi Mark,

So far as I know, Curverider did not “erase” any important content and there have been discussions on this blog about where to move it, in fact.

Your tone suggests a reason why Curverider staff might not want to participate in this kind of discussion right now. They’ve worked flat out for the better part of a year and delivered a fantastic piece of software, only to find that an awful lot of people (and not just the trolls) wanted to whine and complain.

To be honest, I agree with the decision that they made. There are only four of them and they have a piece of software to develop. I’d rather that they spent their very limited time focusing on that and not dealing with a “community” that threatened to suck every second and bit of energy they had remaining.

Speaking of, I’m running out of energy as well.

Good night.

]]> By: Mark Pearson http://openedweb.com/blog/2008/12/10/elgg/comment-page-1/#comment-2521 Mark Pearson Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:09:02 +0000 http://openedweb.com/blog/?p=798#comment-2521 Thanks Kevin for your explanations. But I still think that this information could have or should have come from the Curverider team themselves. "the key point is that the community had become chaotic and the Curverider staff had no time to manage it." Fair enough, but it's not like this is a new experience for them; classic.elgg was just as chaotic with high traffic and as you pointed out above finding information and lack of editing meant that there was a lot of duplication. A lot of community members have put a lot of time into their Groups and whatever they assert to the contrary Curverider really had no moral right to erase this content without consultation. How can we trust them with hosting meaningful content if they are willing to pull the plug on it without any notice? Thanks Kevin for your explanations. But I still think that this information could have or should have come from the Curverider team themselves.
“the key point is that the community had become chaotic and the Curverider staff had no time to manage it.” Fair enough, but it’s not like this is a new experience for them; classic.elgg was just as chaotic with high traffic and as you pointed out above finding information and lack of editing meant that there was a lot of duplication. A lot of community members have put a lot of time into their Groups and whatever they assert to the contrary Curverider really had no moral right to erase this content without consultation. How can we trust them with hosting meaningful content if they are willing to pull the plug on it without any notice?

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